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Topic: Letter on DrDemento.com

Started by: dementedhusker

peppertree5706   Offline  -  Participant  -  10-13-05 10:16 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Not only that, but old shows are paid for already. Just royalties and a bookkeeper need to be paid for an old show.

Steven Green


--- dementedhusker



Okay, well I'm pleased to know you are willing to pay $1.00 for a show that costs $775.00 an hour to produce! You see Edwin, production costs are NOT reasonable or inexpensive, they are very real and those who participate expect to get paid.
Small fees cannot possibly help defray the cost of such a production.

OH MY GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW DENSE DO THEY THINK WE ARE????
the response is from someone expecting to put "all that time and money into production" and selling only one show!!!

Telonian, Westwood One, and whomever else need to do the FREAKIN MATH ALREADY!!!!!

Example-- Phoenix has no one broadcasting the Dr. Demento show. The population of Phoenix is around 5 million and growing. If only ONE PERCENT of Phoenix pays $1 for the Dr Demento show, the "powers that be" have made $5000 for ONE WEEKEND -- my connections in the broadcast world assure me that it does not cost $5000 per week for them to carry the show, in fact, it is signifigantly less!!!!!

Come on already!!! We're tired of hearing the whining about production and royalties and this and that and the other thing. Do the math and realize that you have a very large, very loyal base to draw upon, and at $1 a show, it could become a win-win situation for everyone!!


Oh wait, big broadcasting doesnt believe in win-win, nevermind

dementedhusker   Offline  -  Member  -  10-13-05 08:47 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d



Okay, well I'm pleased to know you are willing to pay $1.00 for a show that costs $775.00 an hour to produce! You see Edwin, production costs are NOT reasonable or inexpensive, they are very real and those who participate expect to get paid.
Small fees cannot possibly help defray the cost of such a production.

OH MY GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW DENSE DO THEY THINK WE ARE????
the response is from someone expecting to put "all that time and money into production" and selling only one show!!!

Telonian, Westwood One, and whomever else need to do the FREAKIN MATH ALREADY!!!!!

Example-- Phoenix has no one broadcasting the Dr. Demento show. The population of Phoenix is around 5 million and growing. If only ONE PERCENT of Phoenix pays $1 for the Dr Demento show, the "powers that be" have made $5000 for ONE WEEKEND -- my connections in the broadcast world assure me that it does not cost $5000 per week for them to carry the show, in fact, it is signifigantly less!!!!!

Come on already!!! We're tired of hearing the whining about production and royalties and this and that and the other thing. Do the math and realize that you have a very large, very loyal base to draw upon, and at $1 a show, it could become a win-win situation for everyone!!


Oh wait, big broadcasting doesnt believe in win-win, nevermind

progrocktv   Offline  -  Member  -  10-11-05 01:45 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi AWC,
Maybe it would be a good idea and an opportunity to answer alot of questions if someone could put together a rough "estimate" of how much it would cost to make an episode available online? Granted it takes alot of time and money to produce new shows but let's take an old show (let's say from 1980 or something like that) that is already completed and paid for and one that let's say Wayne already has (in other words you probably don't need to factor in production costs, paying runners, gas expenses, staff etc. because most of those factors are already done and paid for in 1980) We have a complete episode plopped down on the desk in front of us and let's say Wayne is willing to do all of the work. Who needs to get paid and how much? (rough guess)

This way everyone can chime in if they think the price is/not worth it.

Also any possibility of making archive releases on CD? Maybe a subscription service? I know you have the Basement tapes but complete episodes (maybe even a CD-R full of shows in MP3 format) Just an idea to throw out.


--- mgrtal

Well Maxe, not quite<
Wayne would have to get "clearance" for each show, pay
royalties to ASCAP, BMI and RIAA, pay production costs, book-keeping costs,
pay the hourly salaries to our production staff, pay for the upkeep of our office
(including telephone/fax service, utilities and rent) pay the runner who chases up to Culver City (plus gas expenses) to pick up the many CD's and tapes our fans send us each week.
Now, what about Dr. Demento. . . should he just do the show for free?

Folks, this is very complicated. It's not about shutting down, it's about staying alive another day so we can produce shows.

AWC
Talonian Productions
Musashi270   Offline  -  Member  -  10-11-05 03:05 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Let me clarify something that was pointed out to me by a friend about my previous post. The end paragraph is not a threat, simply a statement of what has been seen before in similar situations and a plea that it not be that way in this case. Thanks.
Musashi270   Offline  -  Member  -  10-11-05 03:02 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
AWC: I cannot state strongly enough how much I agree with Wayne. Yes, I will take what you say about the situation being "complicated" at face value. However, every posting I have seen from you makes it sound as though each listener who downloads any part of any show has to pay the entire cost of that show. Last I looked, even a bricks-and-mortar retail outfit did not run that way. Let me put it another way: There are several things that everyone can agree on. Examples:

1- We want to help. Dr. D has one of the most loyal fan bases known to man, second only to the Chicago "Hope Springs Eternal" Cubs. We do not want to do things that would endanger or even discomfort the Dr., his livelihood or even Talonian Productions.

2- There are ways to make this work. As above, it is complicated but it is not re-inventing the wheel. All of the angles to the production and clearance of the show you are familiar with. If the online and download for a fee angles are new and different, the good news is that there are a lot of people who have already broke the trail on how to do this; from individual stations all the way to Audible.com.

At the end of the day, what it comes down to is will. If there is corporate will or even simply goodwill, this can be done. If there is some particular reason that it is being opposed it won't.

Napster should show you the way. If you give people a reasonable way to pay for such a service, the vast majority will. However, if there is no such method, there is a certain number of people who will make their own way.
Captain Wayne   Offline  -  Site Owner  -  10-11-05 01:56 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
AWC:

What can we do to help the Doctor?


--- mgrtal
would have to get "clearance" for each show, pay
royalties to ASCAP, BMI and RIAA, pay production costs, book-keeping costs,
pay the hourly salaries to our production staff, pay for the upkeep of our office
(including telephone/fax service, utilities and rent) pay the runner who chases up to Culver City (plus gas expenses) to pick up the many CD's and tapes our fans send us each week.
Now, what about Dr. Demento. . . should he just do the show for free?

Folks, this is very complicated. It's not about shutting down, it's about staying alive another day so we can produce shows.

AWC
Talonian Productions
mgrtal   Offline  -  Member  -  10-10-05 09:36 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d

--- Maxe
If I was on DrD's place, I'd let Wayne do a commercial hosting - as all the sites could be used and most of the hard work is already done.

Well Maxe, not quite<
Wayne would have to get "clearance" for each show, pay
royalties to ASCAP, BMI and RIAA, pay production costs, book-keeping costs,
pay the hourly salaries to our production staff, pay for the upkeep of our office
(including telephone/fax service, utilities and rent) pay the runner who chases up to Culver City (plus gas expenses) to pick up the many CD's and tapes our fans send us each week.
Now, what about Dr. Demento. . . should he just do the show for free?

Folks, this is very complicated. It's not about shutting down, it's about staying alive another day so we can produce shows.

AWC
Talonian Productions
mgrtal   Offline  -  Member  -  10-10-05 09:31 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
DJ,Scott

There is a lot more to the problem than you have knowledge.
We tried to work things out. . .didn't happen.
Do you work 40 to 50 hours a week for free?
Are you willing to spend a few years in jail?
Do you have a bank account with tens of thousands of dollars
to "buy into the show's production?"
Are you willing to pay legal fees in the "hundreds of thousands of dollars" bracket? And then pay a few million dollars in fines?
The axe to grind is with the large corporate giants that call the shots. . . be infuriated all you want but you are now in the same shoes that the big boys are, having what they paid for taken away.

AWC, Talonian Productions

///////////////////////////////////////////////////

--- djscott
It looks as if Dr.Demento has an axe to grind-It really infuriates me that Talonian Productions initially tells Wayne Ross that he can only have his website visitors listen to selected portions of the shows that were posted-Then Talonian does an about face & tells Wayne that he has to remove all the audio files-That's absolutely crazy!-I've been a long time fan of Dr.D since 1975-Unfortunately,I live in Southwestern Connecticut & none of the stations in my area seem eager to run the show-I still can't figure that out-Wayne busted his hump to get this website off the ground & now he's been branded a pirate-I would think Dr.Demento would've been tickled pink that Wayne wanted to share his vast collection of shows with Dementians & Dementites around the world.
mgrtal   Offline  -  Member  -  10-10-05 09:18 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d

--- Edwin1 wrote:
What "Format" is the Dr. Demento Show?

Hi Edwin,

Thanks for posting my reply, saves time.
Dr. Demento is called "Rock Oldies Format"

We have signers calling every day tyrying to place the show on the air, the problem is corporate structure programming, independants owning their own station is a thing of the past
and trying to crack the corporate egg is tough indeed.

Arthur Chadbnourne
Talonian Productions

peppertree5706   Offline  -  Participant  -  10-10-05 01:50 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
You have two drive-ins in Twin Falls? When is it warm enough for them to operate? In the month of July, then they close August 1st for the winter?

I can anticipate a lot of "frigidity" in female dates at those drive-ins.

I bet there are a lot of mosquitos during those four weeks of warm weather as well.

I only know of two drive-ins in the whole state of Texas.

Some of my finer moments in life were listening to Dr. D on the radio and doing the "night moves' in the backseat in the drive-in. A sweet memory.

Steven Green


I'd say we should all move to Twin Falls, but that would just be crazy. Unfortunately, the facts that they have Dr. Demento and two operating drive in theaters are the only selling points for any move to the greater Twin Falls area. Not only that, but whenever I move anywhere where Dr. Demento is on the radio, the station changes its format and drops the Doctor within 12 months of my arrival.

Life sucks, don't it,

Will

Edwin1   Offline  -  Participant, MP3  -  10-10-05 01:49 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Here is the response I got back from Mr. Chadborne from a email I sent him.

Hello Edwin,

Thank you for your letter, we always enjoy fan mail.

Dear Dr. Demento,

I am sending this letter from a posting off of Wayne Ross's site "The Mad Music Archive" to let Wayne put the files back up and to pay a fee to you to let us download the files. PLEASE!

First allow me to explain that "downloding for free" is the problem.
Production cost are real and expensive. Without profit from these productions it is impossible to continue the show. . .we couldn't even pay for the website that places them on-line!

Although "PLEASE" is a wonderful word. . . go to your nearest gasoline station and say "please" for a free tank of gas. . . I think that the situation may present the same problem we face with what's happening right now.

I also just wanted you to know that I used Waynes site as a tool to play Whimsical Will's sound bite contest! I rarely downloaded full shows. Also I really enjoy your current shows and my favorite shows are coming up soon! THE HALLOWEEN SHOWS!!! CAN'T WAIT!!!

Thank you for your layalty, it IS appreciated, very much!

It is legitimate and correct to earn money for the show, for the production, for your time and for payment of royalties. No reasonable person (except Communists) would argue or dispute that.

True.

I see an economic demand for old shows. If old shows can be downloaded for a reasonable fee, then everyone wins. Few fans of Dr. Demento would mind spending $1. per show or even $1. per hour of listening (commercials included).

Okay, well I'm pleased to know you are willing to pay $1.00 for a show that costs $775.00 an hour to produce! You see Edwin, production costs are NOT reasonable or inexpensive, they are very real and those who participate expect to get paid.
Small fees cannot possibly help defray the cost of such a production.

What is indefensible is to not furnish old shows and then to shut down the distribution of old shows from all other sources.

Indefensible? You surely jest. . . if you are willing to pay the sizable fines and spend the years in jail for copyright violations - then you are out of touch with reality. Every SINGLE show is copyrighted and we have to PAY to secure the rights to reproduce each and every song you have downloaded for free!

Let's all win. You furnish a way for us to listen to the old shows and we will pay a reasonable fee for them.

Can you guarantee that a "reasonable fee" will support the tens of thousands of dollars required to produce the Dr. Demento Show? We did ask our fans to answer a request about a "pay as we go" online survey. . .Results? Appallingly low, it seems that very few are willing to support the show, even within reasonable contributions.

Small fees cannot possibly help defray the cost of such a production.

I am sure that Wayne would not mind being an agent for Dr. Demento downloads. He can furnish the shows, give fans a place (website) to download, collect the money and then pay it to you.

In a utopian world you are correct, however, Wayne hasn't shared any contributions thus far. . . hmmmm, I wonder why?

All you have to do is give him permission and be there to collect the money from Wayne. If my assumption is incorrect here, please let me know.

"ALL" is the operative misconception! You have no idea what it takes to LEGALLY produce such a show! The costs are well beyond the term "ALL we have to do."

I hope this problem gets settled soon. In the meantime, let's let the syndicator know that we are willing to pay them a fee for old shows and we demand old shows.

Edwin, thank you for your input. We do appreciate all fan mail, good or bad. . .it helps keep us abreast with our fandom.

Stay Demented!

Can't help it :-)



Arthur Chadbourne
MGR Talonian Productions

Edwin1   Offline  -  Participant, MP3  -  10-10-05 02:50 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
I emailed a radio station close to me tonight about carrying the Dr. Demento show and they emailed me back with this answer: "It's doesn't fit our "format" for a rock station." What "Format" is the Dr. Demento Show?
In fact, I have email several radio stations and I will report each response as they arrive!
Wonko D. Sane   Offline  -  Member  -  10-09-05 08:39 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
During my college years a couple of friends and I had several petitions to radio stations begging them to run the show. Unfortunately, we did not know at that time that most of the stations were owned by two companies. So just by going to one station's HQ, we were denied by six stations all at once...

-WTS


--- Wayne
My question is:

Have anyone ever tried to convince a local radio station to carry the show?

I'm sure that we could get the Doctor played on more stations if we actually put some effort into it. Sitting a lamenting that he's not on is living in the problem. Actually working to get him on a station is living in the solution.

Has anyone actually pressed a program director to carry the show? What kind of response did you get?
will1410   Offline  -  Member  -  10-09-05 06:56 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
I've asked around here (Northern Idaho) and the answer is almost always the same - we don't program our own music.

Just about all of the stations around here get their music from a feed that comes from somewhere else and is selected to attract a certain type of consumer. If you want to sell ad space to businesses that targets people in their late 40s to early 60s, then you get yourself an "Oldies" feed. If you're looking to sell ad space to companies that target younger consumers, then you might try an "Alternative" or "Top 40" feed. If you're looking to sell ad space to companies that target wackos and crazies, well, then you want a talk radio feed.

If you actually want to promote musical expression, diverse viewpoints, thoughtful discussion, and creativity, then you need an independent, community operated non-commercial station or a student run college station. Oh, and if you're doing that you're going to be broadcasting at between 50 and 500 watts, which means you'll only have a few hundred listeners, and you're not going to make any money. And one of the reasons you're not going to make any money is because it's actually illegal for stations that are being operated as community or college stations in these power ranges to accept advertising.

In the town I live in, Moscow, Idaho, we have 4 such stations in the area. Two are operated at 50 watts by students at Washington State University and, since I'm almost 12 miles away from their transmitter, I can't hear them at home. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of places within the city of Pullman where you can't even hear these stations - their power is so low that if you get about 3 miles from their transmitter, the reception sucks.

The other two stations are here in Moscow. One is a local community owned station that, even though I'm only 3 miles from their transmitter, I can't receive because there's a big hill blocking the line of sight (they also broadcast at 50 watts). The other is operated by students at the University of Idaho and broadcasts at a whopping 500 watts, but won't broadcast Dr. Demento because all of their musical programming is produced entirely by students and because the show contains commercials.

The radio industry is run by big companies like Journal Broadcasting and Clear Channel and their goal is to offer programming that helps advertisers draw in consumers to listen to their ads. Marketers at these companies feel that the way to draw in consumers is to play songs that consumers in their target audience are familiar with - songs the consumers already know - songs the consumers can sing along with. They want consumers to be able to tune in to their stations at any time of the day or night and be able to hear songs that they already know so that they won't feel the urge to change the station. They fear that a show like Dr. Demento will make consumers in their target audience say things like "I don't know this song," or "Change the station!" or "What the f**k is this s**t!"

Although I can sing along with "In Heaven There Is No Beer," "Standing On The Shoulders Of Freaks," and "Harry's Jockstrap," the marketers at big radio stations don't think that most of the people in their target audience can. That's why they avoid The Dr. Demento Show.

Will
danny d   Offline  -  Artist  -  10-09-05 02:14 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
--- Wayne
My question is:

Have anyone ever tried to convince a local radio station to carry the show?



after KMET was KILLED,dr. demento was on KLSX in L.A. this was before it became all-talk featuring howard stern in the morning. then for a period of time after the format changed from classic rock,dr. d wasn't on KLSX. after a pretty fair amount of coaxing the station gave him a "2-3 week try-out" to see if their was enough interest in having him on their air. KLSX became deluged with mail in the positive,and put him back on regularly for about 2 years. after they dropped him again he went to fledgling alternative station KSCA,and was there for that station's short run. i don't know what prompted the 2nd firing from KLSX (which came to be known as KLS-SUCKS). it certainly wasn't for lack of listeners. at one point after the "try-out" period and he was given a regular time slot,dr.d had to go on the air and tell listeners to STOP sending letters of encouragement to the station. "they get it",he said. they got it,but apparently weren't willing to keep it.
so who knows how much attention station owners pay to the people who actually LISTEN to what they put on the air.

....or if they even care at all.

dd
progrocktv   Offline  -  Member  -  10-09-05 01:46 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d

--- Wayne
My question is:

Has anyone actually pressed a program director to carry the show? What kind of response did you get?
-------

Yup, I spoke with a couple directors about a year ago and the responses were:

1. We're a "serious" radio station and don't play comedy shows.

2. We're only a local affiliate, all of our programming comes out of L.A. (or whereever else) and have a local "cut in" DJ.
(I was surprised a couple of people said the above response)

I guess this is what happens when radio stations get swallowed up by the big guys.

Captain Wayne   Offline  -  Site Owner  -  10-09-05 11:46 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
My question is:

Have anyone ever tried to convince a local radio station to carry the show?

I'm sure that we could get the Doctor played on more stations if we actually put some effort into it. Sitting a lamenting that he's not on is living in the problem. Actually working to get him on a station is living in the solution.

Has anyone actually pressed a program director to carry the show? What kind of response did you get?
will1410   Offline  -  Member  -  10-09-05 09:48 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Isn't it ironic as hell that you all in Houston and Phoenix - both large cities indeed - don't have Dr. Demento but it is available in Twin Falls, Idaho. Talk about the middle of F***ING nowhere.

And here I am in the same state but still unable to listen to the show on the air cause there's 200 miles and this stupid mountain range seperating me from Twin Falls.

My guess is that the radio station in Twin reaches a market of 50,000-75,000 people.

I'd say we should all move to Twin Falls, but that would just be crazy. Unfortunately, the facts that they have Dr. Demento and two operating drive in theaters are the only selling points for any move to the greater Twin Falls area. Not only that, but whenever I move anywhere where Dr. Demento is on the radio, the station changes its format and drops the Doctor within 12 months of my arrival.

Life sucks, don't it,

Will

--- ChicagoBoy
If you think that sucks, try Houston - 4th largest city in the country, with a metropolitan area of around 5 - 6 million people, and the Good Doctor hasn't been on the air here in over 10 years.


--- dementedhusker
Also, CapSuper, I live in the Phoenix area myself, and I think it really sucks that with a market this size that we have to stream Dr D to listen to him

Bill H   Offline  -  Donator  -  10-09-05 04:33 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hey CB Try here in L.A. I have listened to DD since the days on KPPC and we haven't had him here in ages.
Gee Whiz
soweird   Offline  -  Donator  -  10-09-05 04:20 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Can someone post a note about what company(s) holds the rights to what years of production ??
Edwin1   Offline  -  Participant, MP3  -  10-09-05 02:44 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
It was not Talonian Productions. It is Westwood One Radio Network! They told Wayne to remove the files cause they still own production rights to the Westwood One shows.
Also read the The Letter From Dr. Demento on drdemento.com or here on Wayne's site.
I think once we get through all the mombo jombo legal crap and get some kind of money fee to pay for the download streams the files should be back up again sometime! Knock on wood!!
I think Dr. Demento really didn't mind Wayne promoting his shows except he wasn't getting paid for the downloads.
It's all in the money! Money Talks! Dr. Demento's gotta eat too, you know.
djscott   Offline  -  Donator  -  10-09-05 12:13 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
It looks as if Dr.Demento has an axe to grind-It really infuriates me that Talonian Productions initially tells Wayne Ross that he can only have his website visitors listen to selected portions of the shows that were posted-Then Talonian does an about face & tells Wayne that he has to remove all the audio files-That's absolutely crazy!-I've been a long time fan of Dr.D since 1975-Unfortunately,I live in Southwestern Connecticut & none of the stations in my area seem eager to run the show-I still can't figure that out-Wayne busted his hump to get this website off the ground & now he's been branded a pirate-I would think Dr.Demento would've been tickled pink that Wayne wanted to share his vast collection of shows with Dementians & Dementites around the world.
ChicagoBoy   Offline  -  Member  -  10-08-05 07:45 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
If you think that sucks, try Houston - 4th largest city in the country, with a metropolitan area of around 5 - 6 million people, and the Good Doctor hasn't been on the air here in over 10 years.


--- dementedhusker
Also, CapSuper, I live in the Phoenix area myself, and I think it really sucks that with a market this size that we have to stream Dr D to listen to him

peppertree5706   Offline  -  Participant  -  10-08-05 12:01 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, Wayne should be hired as an agent to distribute the shows and collect the fee. He already has most of the shows so some of the problems you mentioned would not happen if Captain Wayne was an agent and he could use this site as an official download for Demento.

Steven Green


Any other comments on this topic. I'd really like to hear what others would want out of a pay-to-download Dr. Demento archive.

Will
Maxe   Offline  -  Donator  -  10-08-05 05:36 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
If I was on DrD's place, I'd let Wayne do a commercial hosting - as all the sites could be used and most of the hard work is already done.
dementedhusker   Offline  -  Member  -  10-08-05 02:20 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Gee Wayne, I have found a few 'other' (bittorrent) sources for Dr D, so I dont think you got singled out totally..........but, most will recall that even in it's slow, unreliable state, ZacksStacks.com was allowed to run for YEARS, and looks like it's trying to make a comeback.

If the Dr IS referring to you as a pirate, then by God I'll put on an eyepatch and join you!!!!


Also, CapSuper, I live in the Phoenix area myself, and I think it really sucks that with a market this size that we have to stream Dr D to listen to him

Captain Wayne   Offline  -  Site Owner  -  10-07-05 08:53 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
LOL!!!!!!


--- will1410
You're saying "Pirate" like it's a bad thing.
will1410   Offline  -  Member  -  10-07-05 08:52 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
You're saying "Pirate" like it's a bad thing.
Captain Wayne   Offline  -  Site Owner  -  10-07-05 08:04 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Interesting.

I put thousands of dollars into my colleciton, over twelve-hundred hours into createing a site whose sole purpose was to promote The Dr. Demento Show and the Artists we all enjoy.

I never charged a dime or accepted advertisements. I was 'Trading' shows, which the Doctor himself said was permissible on the air during one of his shows.

I answered every phone call from them, answered every e-mail from them, met every conditions they ever even suggested.

Now I'm called a "Pirate"?

Where did that come from?

Don't get me wrong - I'm grateful that they let me stream as long as they did (I was first contacted in May). I realize that they are running a business, I was only trying to help them by building a groundswell of support.

Jeez - talk about a kick in the teeth.
hackinbush   Offline  -  Participant & Donator  -  10-07-05 07:21 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
aaargh
will1410   Offline  -  Member  -  10-07-05 03:40 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think there's enough in my last post to start a new thread, so if you have any responses to what you read from me below this message, then it might be better to respond under the new topic instead of here.

Will
will1410   Offline  -  Member  -  10-07-05 03:37 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
I've read the letter now and had a chance to think about it and if Dr. Demento and the people that produce his show want to sell old shows, I don't have a problem with that at all. Producing these shows is how these people earn their living and they have every right to do that.

Here's what I'd like to see out of an official Dr. Demento download site, though.

1. A good selection of older shows.

I don't want it to only have shows from the last year, or the last 5 years, or the last 10 years. I want it to have shows from the 70s and the 80s. In fact, I want it to mostly have shows from the 70s and 80s - but that's just where my interest is. And I don't want it to be like the selection that used to be on drdemento.com - 2 or 3 older shows that never rotated and hadn't been changed in 2 or 3 years. I'd like to see a big selection - at least as big as the selection that used to be here at themadmusicarchive.com would be good.

2. I want the shows to be in a portable digital format.

In other words, I want shows that I can play on various machines and that I can save. I don't want to have to sit by the computer to listen to a show as it streams over the modem and that I have to download all over again if I want to listen a second time. I want to be able to burn a copy onto a CD and play it in my car and I want to be able to load a copy onto my mp3 player so I can listen between classes when I'm sitting in the lounge at the library (listening to Dr. Demento at lunch time is a lot more enjoyable than listening to the frat-boy freshmen at the next table talking about how much they drank the night before).

3. I want the shows to have good audio fidelity.

I think this one speaks for itself. I have several older shows in 32k 22h Mono format. If I'm going to pay for shows, I'd really like CD quality.

4. I want the shows to be broken into segments.

I don't like it when an entire two hour show is all in one file like a few of the older shows.

5. I want the cost to be reasonable.

One thing that I hope that Dr. Demento and the others that produce this show realize is that we're all a bunch of geeky collectors. The fact that someone was able to put together an illegal archive of about 1500 shows should attest to that. The fact that this archive was then visited and utilized by almost 2000 members should also reinforce that fact. If I'm going to have a place to buy shows, I will become a bit pickier about which shows I collect - after all, I'm not made out of money. But that same instinct that causes people like me (and I'm assuming that at least a few of you are like this too) to want to purchase large collections of STAR WARS action figures will also cause me to want to acquire a large collection of old Dr. Demento shows. If that's an affordable possibility, I'll probably do it.

If an entire show costs, lets say, $5, then I'm likely to think "hey, that's not bad" and buy 2 or 3 shows a month. If, however, shows cost $10 each, then it'll be more like 1 or 2. More than that and I'm likely to get pissed off and think, "Gee, I wish there was a place where I could download shows illegally again" and not download any shows at all.

On the extreme other end of the scale, though, if an entire show only cost $1, then my thinking will go along the lines of "Jeez, these are cheap, and I'd probably end up buying 40-50 a month. Yeah, I know it sounds stupid and doesn't make any sense, but that's the kind of thinking my brain would go through as I built up a digital collection of Dr. Demento shows to rival my collections of Maynard Ferguson LPs, James Bond books, and Sega Dreamcast games.

Any other comments on this topic. I'd really like to hear what others would want out of a pay-to-download Dr. Demento archive.

Will
jdzack   Offline  -  Participant  -  10-07-05 03:22 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
PLEASE don't start ragging on the Good Doctor about this. It's not his fault. The RIAA can even go after the Good Doctor himself for "not doing anything" about the internet piracy of the copyrighted material that is legitimately used on the over-the-air broadcasts. We should all be thankful that Dr. Demento basically looked the other way for as long as he could; allowing dedicated mad music and crazy comedy fans (such as the wonderful Wayne Ross) to post show archives. Based on the ever-present probability of legal problems, you really don't know just how good we've had it here at The Mad Music Archive.

I, for one, would like to thank both Wayne Ross for his absolutely incredible archive, AND Dr. Demento for keeping "in the game" of syndicated radio programming in the incredibly difficult world of bland vanilla corporate radio. Many people who were in it "for the almighty dollar" would have packed it up years ago.

Dr. Demento has kept his show going through several syndicator changes, more and more radio stations that cancel syndicated programming in favor of voice-tracked 600-song music formats, and the increasing apathy of radio listeners who have lost all faith that local radio stations will ever return to LOCAL ownership and LOCAL programming decisions.

IF the FCC would stop allowing mega-corporate creativity-killers such as Clear Channel, Infinity, and even little wannabe corporations like New Northwest Broadcasters, to keep buying more and more stations (and systematically fire local talent to replace real people with out-of-town voice-tracked generic music shows), maybe the creative people like Dr. Demento would once again have an increasingly receptive outlet for his type of program.

When I was in radio (20 years in small-to-medium markets), part of what I required the radio station to do as a condition of my employment was to run "The Dr. Demento Show." In fact, for several years, I paid the small-market syndication fee ($10 per show at the time) out of my own pocket.

Let's see where all this goes before we start throwing blame around. Dr. Demento mentions the possibility of accessing current and past shows for an "affordable fee." Many of us have offered to willingly pay a monthly fee to access the content of this incredible archive... now maybe it's time to willingly pay an affordable fee for access to shows from the source: the Good Doctor himself.

I really hope Wayne continues to pursue his passion and keep building the Mad Music Archive... and continue hosting the search features and forums we all enjoy.
the nack   Offline  -  Member  -  10-07-05 12:34 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d

--- callminder
Dear Dr. Demento... Thank you for showing us what is the most important thing in the world to you... the all mighty dollar.

You like to eat too?
callminder   Offline  -  Donator  -  10-07-05 12:07 PM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
One way to read this letter is that Demento, et. al. stepped on Wayne simply because that plan on SELLING what Wayne was providing for free. This BS about advertizing makes sense for new shows, but it does not ring true for something that is 20 years old from a radio station that is not even in business any more.

Dear Dr. Demento... Thank you for showing us what is the most important thing in the world to you... the all mighty dollar.
the nack   Offline  -  Member  -  10-07-05 10:42 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
Believe it or not. It might be hard to discribe it as such but it is intellectual property.
CapSuper   Offline  -  Participant  -  10-07-05 05:23 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
I wouldn't check Dr. D Live expecting a letter from the Dr. about why the audio files were pulled. I'd expect it to be about one of the Dr.'s appearances in California. Since I live in Arizona, I really don't care about live shows in california.

Thank you Dementedhusker for posting the doc's letter with a subject about the letter.
dementedhusker   Offline  -  Member  -  10-07-05 03:06 AM  -  11 years ago
fiogf49gjkf0d
I just pulled this off the Dr Demento website, sounds like a little bit of finger pointing, and a little hogwash as well. As far as advertisers paying thousands for the program, well, some of the shows out there are uncut, including commercials! So for those advertisers intial investment of having a commercial on say a 1995 show, that commercial has reached audiences for 10 years, I'll bet that was never included in the marketing impact surveys!!!

Anyway, I still think this is pretty messed up, but am staying tuned.

BTW, the most reliable source I have found for Dr D on Sundays is KOZT streaming from Mendicino county, CA

Peace, and GO HUSKERS!!!



A letter from Dr. Demento...

Dear Listeners,

During the past few years many people have told me how much they have enjoyed hearing the Dr. Demento Show on the Internet.

People have found the show online in several ways -- by accessing the streamed signals of a few of our FM and AM affiliates, by using our "Listen To This" feature at DrDemento.com, and by accessing various websites that offer pirated copies of our shows without authorization.

For many listeners, these Internet sources seem like a godsend, especially in areas where the show can no longer be heard on FM or AM radio.

Recently, extensive Internet sources of pirated Dr. Demento Shows have been shut down for legal reasons. Since then, many more people have asked us why we cannot offer the current show each week on DrDemento.com for free, just like our affiliate radio stations do on the airwaves.

Here are a few reasons why:

1) Those radio broadcasts are not really free. They are paid for by advertisers, who are willing to spend thousands of dollars per minute in order to reach the large number of people who listen to the show on FM and AM. Those advertisers are the sole means of support for the radio show (as they are for most of the TV shows on the air today)...and they have not, thus far, been willing to support Internet radio in the same way.

2) Even if I wanted to give the show away, I'd still have to pay royalties for the music I play. Pirates don't do that, of course, but organizations like ASCAP, BMI and the RIAA, representing song publishers and record labels, are zealous about going after people who transmit their music without paying.

3) The Dr. Demento Show is my full time job. It takes 40-50 hours a week to put it together, and make it the best funny-music show on the planet, week after week for over 35 years.

There is good news on the horizon. We are very busy making preparations to make current and past Dr. Demento shows available online, through this site, for an affordable fee. There is a lot of red tape involved in doing this legitimately, but we're plowing through it as fast as we can.

Watch this site for updates...but in the meantime, remember that pirated transmissions threaten the survival of the Dr. Demento Show. With your help, I'll keep making new shows for your enjoyment as long as I possibly can.

Sincerely,
Dr Demento

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